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Keen wrote:

What racism? "What goblins and ghosties"?

How is it racism to say that one finds a particular language confusing?

No-one is talking about "goblins and ghosties" either. It would be nice if demons were "hogwash", but they are real and at a Christian meeting near you.

Maybe you are just trying to get a reaction?

OK That's a reaction.

Happy now?

I believe he was responding to something in my post. Earlier someone had mentioned something about Chinese being demonic in origin, I don't think they believed it themselves, just mentioned the idea. So I asked if anyone had any references for such things because I had heard others say similar things to me recently. I'd like to know how people actually came to this conclusion. The 'hogwash' statement Keen wrote was in response to the idea of linking the Japanese language (in his case) with the demonic, not about the demonic in itself. (at least, that's how I interpreted it)

Forgot to say welcome to the forum!

I don't think you know Keen. He loves to get a rise out of people, so one tends to assume he's at it again, even if he isn't for once.

Yes, I found that a very strange idea, that the Chinese language is demonic. Indeed, I have a book claiming that ancient Chinese calligraphy contains many aspects of Biblical truth, hidden in the pictures! I don't know anything about Chinese writing except that it is written in columns instead of rows, and that each word is a picture or combination of pictures, instead of being phonetic like most languages.

Chinese civilisation is apparently very ancient, and the writers of the book believe that the one who first set the language down in writing may well have been alive either during or not so long after man's dispersion from the Tower of Babel. In that case he would have known about things like the fall of man, the Flood etc, as well as Babel, as comparatively recent history. The book claims that he must have "hidden" this history of mankind in the written characters he created.

If that is true, written Chinese is anything but demonic!

Jeannette

Hi Guys,

Todd commented on my blog. His sister in law is Japanese. She claims that it means "great, big, huge, Keeper of Hell"

http://blog.trentonadams.ca/2008/03/24/ ... mment-3305

http://www5c.biglobe.ne.jp/~crosroad/names.htm

The site above belongs to a Japanese Baptist church. It has a list of Biblical names, their meanings and discriptions, and how they are written in different languages.



It uses the same symbols on Todd's arm to write the name David in Chinese. Again, the 王 would just be a title - notice it used earlier to describe David as the king who came after Saul and was the second king of the Kingdom of Israel. Note: Japanese usually write the name David phonetically as ダビデ (dabide) instead of using Chinese characters.

Thus, Japanese people do agree with the usage of the symbols to mean King David.

Keen please zip your lip...you always tend to say negative things as if it is spiritual...no one has said anything against Japenese or chinese writing as being demonic...Doe Johnson made that assumption on their own...Neither did Pat Holliday say it was either...she took notice to the tattoo writing on Todd Bentley's arm and thought it had something to do with Emma...she didn't know for sure neither did she say it was absolutely that way...people you must learn how to tell when someone is speaking out of their own ideas and when someone saying something is an absolute fact...Pat Holliday said in regards to the tattoo with the Japenese writing on it...


Doe Johnson you spoke out of your dislike for what she said .....you have tried to project somethings about what Pat Holliday said in this newsletter she DID NOT say...She didn't say this kind of writing was demonic but that the Japenese tattooing has been around for a long time...that "as far as historians and archeologists can tell these japanese tattooing are believed to have held a special religious or magical meaning to their bearers." Pat Holliday's newsletter mainly focused on the angel Emma that Todd Bentley claims is the angel of the prophetic...if you have a problem with what she said please try to quote certain things she said rather than go off on a tangent causing people who didn't read the article or who did and forgot what it said because so much time has passed since if was posted originally and portray what she said out of your disagreement and own opinions...we like to try to quote what we can and respond to what was said so that all can see in the light of what we are talking about...

The things Pat said about the other symbols of Todd's tattoos come from 30 years of studying the bible and doing research on other religions, their beliefs and cultural influences and occult symbols and their meanings in order to be able to refute these philosophies when they creep in and mix with christianity and are passed off as "of God" or "acceptable to God"...she is no novice...though she is a human being who is fallible without Jesus and the Holy Spirit...

Also I am the one who said that the one symbol looked like the blair witch symbol...I didn't personally say it was the blair witch symbol or that chinese or japanese language was demonic either...to clarify...

WOW! I guess Pat Holliday wasn't "off" then eh? Or nichole for that matter...when she posted her finds on the writting..

And I just asked my Chinese teacher today and her reply was:
But just in case it means something else in Japanese, I've also messaged someone from my Japanese church, not even stating which one I believe it to mean. I'll tell you their reply too.


Well, now I know what more of the confusion is about. I was referring mostly to the Jesus Death Mask article mentioned on this thread earlier. http://www.patholliday.com/christograms ... hcraft.pdf
The quote "Could this be the name of Emma-O? Let me know" is not on the newsletter I was talking about. It saysThis is stated as a fact that the tattoo is about Enma Daiou, not as a question. They took only one statement from a person who clearly did not know exactly what it said and used it as a starting point for the entire Emma section after that.

From the first newsletter
Yes, but it would not be using these symbols. Chinese symbols were brought to Japan around 500 A.D. Also, this would be about the Jomon period. It is not known whether the Jomon people were in fact modern Japanese ancestors. Many believe them to be the ancestors of the Ainu and that the modern Japanese people are immigrants from China and Korea.

Okay, this part was a misunderstanding - I was responding to a previous post. I read through all of the posts on this thread and it was briefly brought up somewhere. Because someone said something to me similar to it about a week ago, I just wanted to know if anyone had information on it. This particular idea simply upsets me because I like Asian languages - I wanted info.

I didn't say anything about the angel(demon?) Todd sees named Emma, unless it was about the Enma-Daiou comparison. I don't know anything about Todd. My response was mostly about the tattoo claimed to have Enma-Daiou written on it. But I'll try to quote things more often for clarity.

My complaint about this was that the pictures were not clear enough to say everything she did in the second newsletter. I know this from being around computer images my entire life and taking course where all I did half the time was edit images. The pictures were either too pixaleted or too small. If they were larger high quality pictures, I wouldn't have complained as much. However, the fact that I have seen many pictures of oni as I have lived in Japan before, causes me to believe the skull probably isn't one. The other picture I had a problem with was the Medusa one. The image is only about an inch or two long. It is also in the first newsletter as a larger photo.This statement was fine. To me the image was clearly male.

Yes, but Pat Holliday wrote in the second newsletter To me it sounds like this is more of a fact than a question, as the first sentence is a statement. It sounds like is pushing others to also see the Blair Witch symbol in it, when the symbol is simply from a foreign language.

My main point was the second article's basic information was poorly researched. My second point was that the images were not clear. From what I read of the first article, it was fine.

The pastor's daughter from my church in Japan (he and his family are all Japanese) said:

The "ma" would be the same as the one from Enma.
Thus, it is not a Japanese word, but a Chinese word (unless it's archaic). And as said before, according to my Chinese teacher it means King David.

Go to http://aicfjapan.com/index-en.php if you want to contact them.

Well either way no matter what kind of picture or symbol the tattoo is christian or non christian no believer should be getting more tattoos on their body after receiving Jesus...this is not that behavior of one who represents a leader in God's eyes...many of those who were chosen to be a leader type were instructed to have some godly character in place...some discipline on the fleshly nature and not a distorter of the word or one who is free from the love of money...not saying all men will perfectly obey but all of these things should be seen in the person leading God's flock to some degree...I find it interesting that a supposive minister of the gospel would tatoo his body up and get body piercings during his christian walk and then be so widely accepted and that these things are totally disregarded as acceptable...that if anyone looks at this and questions it then they are looking at the outward appearance because God looks at the heart it very manipulative and using the word of God in a perverted way...because this was not what the scriptures were talking about but are being used as a blockade from people examining why Todd Bentley has done this to his own body and being set up as some sort of person to follow as a godly example or minister of God because he is in a church setting and uses the name of Jesus to do his works...God wouldn't give a person who claims to be His minister permission to tattoo and pierce their body with jewelry for all to see...even if it does have christian symbols...that doesn't mean God is approving of it...it violates His word...if the world considers putting graffiti on someone's elses property is illegal and trashy how much more our bodies? And we do not own ourselves but were bought and purchased with the blood of Jesus...now on Todd Bentley's myspace he has posted pics of his tattoos glorying in them...and there are young people just admiring his tattoos as if this is soo cool and something to imitate...leaders are to represent Jesus and set examples that others can imitate...this is not something one should imitate because it is instructing people to violate God's word about these things...the bible says that we are not to make any provision for the flesh...how is putting tattoos on your body spiritual or benefiting for the glory of Christ? It actually draws attention to ones flesh not Christ... Ok I'm done ranting

The funny thing is I went to revivalschool.com and I'm guessing the guy who does that site did an exposé on Todd Bentley and the Lakeland "Revival" among other things, that article can be found here http://revivalschool.com/florida.html

I live about 20 minutes from where Todd lives in Canada, i have no ill will for the man, but there are many theological errors that expel him and the Florida Outpouring from being a true revival. As well the people he links himself with, to name a few that have disturbing heretical views: William Branham (Denied the Trinity, taught the Serpent Seed Theory) Benny Hinn (Believed there are 9 elements of the trinity that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit each have a Body, Soul and Spirit, False Prophet, taught that men can become gods) Paul Cain (Kanas City Prophets who were proven to be false prophets in the 90's, had women strip naked before him to "get closer to the Lord", had a homosexual encounter did repent but seems very unrepentant and seems to deny that it ever took place), just to name a few. His Jesus, his Gospel and the Spirit is another Jesus, another Gospel, and another Spirit as Paul mentions in II Corinthians 11:4

Todd preaches on prosperity signs & wonders and angels, the Apostles preached Jesus, the suffering servant, the one who came to sever and not be served. As Paul said "For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified." I Corinthians 2:2. As Jesus said to the twelve in "Mark 9:35 "If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all. Mr. Bentley stated that without him this "revival" would have never taken place, I believe him. Video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFCR0IpgYu0

In Galatians 5:22-23 we read "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness," 23 "gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law."
I have to admit after watching much of what has goes on in Lakeland, I see not "self-control"
Video proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN9Ay4QA ... re=related

Mr. Bentley also seems to be part of the "Contemplative Movement" as well, as on his Fresh Fire web site he sites the mystic Sadhu Singh as he saw as some of spiritual significance to look up to. But Sadhu Singh was one who practiced this very Occultic brand of pray that was taken from Zen Buddhism, Hinduism, Transcendental Meditation, the New Age among many other mystical eastern religions that are completely opposed to Christianity. This type of "prayer/meditation" is to empty ones mind of all thoughts and all feelings, to cease thought. One will repeat a word or a saying or a name, like Jesus, but this doesn't make it ok by God's standards. Yet many Christians believe these mystical eastern practices can be incorporated into a Christian context of the words are changed. The problem is the goal of this type of "meditation" is two fold, it brings the user closer to all religions as the user sees that all religions are serving the same God, just using different names and the second, to awaken our "christ or god conciseness"
The Bible speaks much about pray and that it is a conversation with ourselves and God, the one true and living God. The is no such talk of silent prayers and all roads leading to God, unless of course you mean all roads lead to the Judgement Seat of Christ, then yes they do. Also all the prayers Jesus prayed were verbal prayers to the Father, He even taught us how to pray, incase there was any confusion...
Verses on Prayer:
Matthew 6:7 "But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking."
Matthew 6:9-13 "After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name." 10 "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." 11 "Give us this day our daily bread." 12 "And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors." 13 "And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen."
You can also read some of Paul's letters, there are entire parts that are written out prayers Ephesians 1:15 & most of 2
Also when Jesus tells the disciples that he is praying for them....

So these are some of the issues I have with Mr. Bentley, there are much more, but that is a good start.

Blessings in Christ
j.

When I look at the fruit of Todd Bentley, he doesn't seem to be my brother in Christ! Where is discernment? Or is that "Old School?"

Thanks Erase -- For sharing your commentary. Since the holy laughter craze, I've been out of touch with what has been going on behind the scenes. I left the whole charasmatic movement, including pentecostal and apostolic. I've had many friends who are seriously involved with all of the three above sects of Christianity.

I was saved in a Foursquare church in 1979, in Clackamas, Oregon. The church was ok when I started attending, but quickly got involved with strange doctrines, like happens with so many churches.

There are many churches that are not pentecostal/charasmatic/apostolic that are also being led astray by strange doctrines. There is something wrong in the church (in general) .... People are not reading the Bible enough, or taking God's word seriously. So many people are seeking after their own lustful desires (not just sexual, but there are other kinds of lusts -- music, food, dancing, strange activities like astral projection, etc.).

I'm not against getting excited for the Lord, and moving around, maybe even dancing with self-control to the Lord. There needs to be a good balance and self-control in everything we do and say. The Bible says we are living epistles. We are supposed to be the salt and light.

I believe the name spelled correctly is "Sundar Singh." Correct me if I'm wrong. Here is what I learned about them:

Sundar Singh’s beliefs and practices:
-- conversed with the dead
-- believed in evangelizing the dead
-- believed that everyone will be saved, even if they don’t believe in Jesus
-- believed that all roads lead to heaven
-- believed that everyone has the divine spark in us and would all eventually end up in heaven
-- had strange angelic encounters and visitations
-- believed that Hinduism was a channel for Christ to flow through
-- did not believe in eternal punishment

This is not the kind of person that a Christian should have as a mentor!! Patricia King (is she really a pastor?) is also a bad example of a mentor for anyone, not only a Christian!!

I've been trying to find that video showing Patricia King in a book store, interpreting a dream for a guy ... Has anyone seen that video? Can you pleasea post a link. I wanted to show that video to my roommate when he comes back Saturday.

I studied the subject concerning the gospel message hidden in the Chinese characters. It seems to be true, that certain messages from the Bible are hidden in the Chinese language! I have some webpages archived. Will see if I can find them. I will put up some links ....

I found my archives!! Thank God for Webstractor. Here is just a few links:

http://bibleprobe.com/chinese.htm (The Discovery of Genesis) -- This is an awesome book!! I used to have a copy. Someone must have borrowed it and never returned it. I would like to buy another copy.

http://www.bibleprobe.com/chinese.htm (Early Chinese of Bible Stories)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7Q4GQnqbUE (Genesis Hidden In The Chinese Language > video)

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/388.asp (Chinese Characters and Genesis)

http://www.chinasoul.com/e/e-wk/episode01.htm (China's Confession)

I should probably start a new thread to post more links.